COMMEMORATING THE 50th ANNIVERSARY OF THE VIETNAM WAR: 1961-1973…
LEST WE FORGET… The NEW YORK TIMES, Friday, 30 May 1969… “The United States command reported yesterday that 265 American soldiers died in combat in the week ended last Saturday. During the previous week 430 Americans were killed, the second highest weekly toll this year. The weekly average this year has been 190 American deaths on the battlefields of Vietnam. Last week’s losses brought the number of Americans killed (since January 1961) to 35,530.”…
ARCHIBALD MACLEISH from his poem “The Young Dead Soldiers”…
“They say:
Our deaths are not ours;
they are yours;
they will mean what you make them…”
Good Morning. Humble Host remembers the Vietnam War and the twenty-ninth week of OPERATION COMMANDO HUNT, the relentless effort to interdict the supply of troops and war-making materials pouring through Laos from North Vietnam to fuel the fight of the North Vietnamese and Vietcong against the Government of South Vietnam and the allies to her cause.
I. HEADLINES FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES for 26 May through 1 June 1969…
A. THE WAR… (26 May) SECRETARY OF DEFENSE LAIRD DEFENDS U.S. VIETNAM TACTICS… “…today rejected Senator Edward F. Kennedy’s criticism of United States war tactics in Vietnam, defending the present policy of keeping ‘maximum pressure on the enemy, consistent with the lowest possible casualties.’…This amounted to a rejection of demands …by the Democrats for a change in those tactics, described by Mr. Kennedy in a Senate speech last week as ‘senseless and irresponsible.‘”… MANSFIELD ADDS VOICE… “…’I think it’s another indication of pressure, or the continuation of ‘search and destroy’ and I do not think it helps the negotiations in Paris,’ the Montana Democrat said.”… U.S. SAYS FOE LOST 407 TO ALLIES 10… “…more than 40 enemy soldiers were killed for every allied soldier in the scattered action in a 24-hour period over the weekend… 407 North Vietnamese and Vietcong soldiers were killed in battles that ranged from 60 miles northwest of Saigon to the Mekong Delta 105 miles southwest of the capital. United States losses were put at 4 killed and 83 wounded and South Vietnamese casualties were listed as 6 killed and 16 wounded.”… United States B-52s were out in force over the weekend. Sixty of the bombers struck enemy base and troop concentrations in two areas where there has been stiff fighting along the Cambodian border with 1,800 tons of explosives.”… (27 May) TWO NEW U.S. OFFENSIVES UNDER WAY IN VIETNAM… “…directed at eliminating the enemy in South Vietnam’s two most northern provinces…”… U.S. AGAIN REBUTS CRITICISM ON VIETNAM… “…the White House insisted today that recent increases in casualty rates in South Vietnam had been caused not by a change in allied tactics but by a rise in the number of offensive actions by the enemy.”… (28 May) HANOI BIDS TROOPS TAKE FEWER RISKS–U.S.Officials Link Message of Ho Chi Minh To High Casualties in War… APBIA MOUNTAIN IS ABANDONED A WEEK AFTER CONTROVERSIAL FIGHT– U.S. Paratroopers Leave Peak Near Hue to Continue Ashau Valley Drive… (30 May) WAR TOLL OFF BUT STILL ABOVE AVERAGE–All GIs Off Hamburger Hill… (31 May) U.S. REPORTS 79 CLASHES DURING TRUCE IN VIETNAM… “Clashes between allied and enemy troops flared yesterday despite ceasefires proclaimed by both sides to mark Buddha’s birthday… Seven Americans had been killed and 53 wounded…Enemy losses were put at 80 killed.”… (1 June) FIGHTING FLARES AFTER CEASE-FIRE– Ground Action Renewed… “Sharp fighting broke out yesterday in the Central Highlands of South Vietnam only three hours after the end of the frequently violated cease-fire for Buddha’s birthday. The action continued into the night. When it was halted the United States command said the bodies of 54 North Vietnamese soldiers were found on the battlefield. American losses from elements of the 4th Infantry Division were put at 10 killed and 21 wounded…”…”Farther northeast about 95 miles south of Danang, elements of the American Division’s 11th Light Infantry Brigade reported killing 28 enemy soldiers in another long fight. The Americans were said to have suffered 9 men killed and 29 wounded…About 28 miles northwest of Saigon, United States 25th Infantry Division soldiers reported that 14 North Vietnamese were killed with the aid of artillery and air strikes in a 45-minute clash. There were no American casualties.”…
B. PEACE TALKS IN PARIS… (26 May) THIEU TAKES HELM OF POLITICAL BODY TO COUNTER REDS–Says Aim Is To Unify Saigon–Factions For Political Fight With Communists–Initial Meeting Is Held–New Alliance Consists Mainly Of Conservatives–Major Buddhist Unit Missing... (27 May) VIETCONG STEP UP SAIGON CONTACTS –URGE NEUTRALITY–Agents Establish Links With Intellectuals Who Might Go Into A Future Coalition… (29 May) THIEU HINTS A BAR TO COALITION RULE EMBRACING NATIONAL LIBERATION FRONT–Saigon Chief Says Any Peace Must Meet Terms of Constitution–Election Issue Raised–President Also Appeals To Rule Out a Special Vote On South Vietnam’s Future… (30 May) THIEU SAYS ‘NEVER’ TO COALITION RULE INCLUDING N.L.F.–In Seoul, He Rejects a Role by Vietcong as Condition of a Peace Settlement–Stand Appears Firm–In Communique With Paris, Leaders Also Oppose Partial Allied Pullout… “…Thieu says he will never agree to a coalition government in his country with the National Liberation Front. …most forceful and unequivocal statement on the question of a coalition with the Vietcong which the United States officials have said is among the topics to be negotiated at the peace talks in Paris…. When asked what his position would be, Thieu said: “Please excuse me if I use one word to answer your question. NEVER.”… FOE SEEKS DETAILS ON NIXON’S PLAN–Private Reaction to Proposed Accord In Vietnam Is Reported Encouraged… “North Vietnam’s private reaction to President Nixon’s peace proposals is said here to have been more encouraged to the United States than its negative-sounding public denunciations would indicate.”… (31 May) U.S. AIDES ASSERT THIEU STATEMENTS CAUSE NO CONCERN–Hard-Line Talk In Seoul Is Believed Aimed At Hawkish Elements in Korea–Saigon Leader Now In Taipei... (1 June) U.S. SAYS THIEU BACKS NIXON PEACE PLAN… “The White House contended today that there were no signs of weakening in the support of President Nguyen Van Thieu of South Vietnam for the Nixon Administration’s peace proposals.”
C. THE REST OF THE HEADLINES… (26 May) APOLLO 10 HEADS FOR SPASHDOWN IN PACIFIC TODAY–3 Astronauts Have Shaved–Suggest Scripture Reading And Check Out Spaceship–Carrier Is Standing By–Samoa Plans Welcoming–Director Almost Certain of a July Launch of Apollo 11 and Moon Landing… BLUE CROSS RISES OF UP TO 71% SEEN–Average Rise of 49.5% Was Asked… CHINA-MONGOLIA TENSIONS RISING–Hostility Results In Small Flareups Along Border… ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS BURN DRAFT RECORDS IN CHICAGO… (27 May) APOLLO ENDS 8-DAY FLIGHT–NASA Gives Go-Ahead To Plans For Summer Landing On The Moon–Apollo 10 Astronauts Fine–10 Day Debriefing Will Determine Date For Apollo 11 Mission… U.S. HOPES TO PUT MEN ON MARS IN 1980s… MELEE ERUPTS AS JURY CONVICTS 12 WAR PROTESTERS IN MILWAUKEE… (28 May) IRAN URGES WEST TO ABANDON GULF AREA–Says Region Should Control Own Affairs After 1971… FAMILIES, FRIENDS AND NASA AIDES GREET APOLLO 10 ASTRONAUTS IN HOUSTON… (29 May) APOLLO TEN PHOTOGRAPHS COVER PAGE 1–Surface Of Moon Seen In Sharp Detail… ISRAELIS INDICATE PLAN TO KEEP BASE AT SHARM el SHIEK… Arabs Raid Jericho For 2nd Night In Row…BIG FOUR SAID TO DRAFT INTERIM STATEMENT ON MIDEAST PEACE–Talks Adjourn For Week… CANADA INSISTS ON PULLOUT OF NATO… SOVIET AIDE BACKS TALKS WITH CHINA–But Insists Czarist Border Agreements Are Valid… “The Soviet Union today said that it was ready to settle all ‘disputable’ border issues by negotiation but that the frontier with China was legally and historically fixed.”… SOVIET IS FOUND BY STUDY GROUP TO SEEK CONTROL OF WORLD’S SEAS… “A panel of American and European analysts has concluded that the Soviet Union has embarked on a maritime strategy of challenging the United States and other non-communists sea powers for control of key areas around the Eurasian land mass. The Soviet policy is based on continuing expansion of the navy and merchant marine…”… SOVIET TO OFFER WORLD RED PARLEY A DEFENSE FOR THEIR STAND ON CZECHOSLOVAKIA… (30 May) ISRAEL-SYRIAN AIR BATTLE ERUPTS OVER GOLAN AREAS… “A Syrian MIG-21 was shot down today by an Israeli jet in a brief air battle over the Golan Heights, the southwestern part of Syria that has been occupied by Israel since the war of 1967. (Was a 2 v. 2 five minute battle)… U.S. SEEKS PLAN FOR ARMS PARLEY WITH SOVIETS–Now Views September As Earliest Likely Date… “…about how to limit the nuclear arms race. Some serious arguments about the proper approach to negotiations appear to have contributed to this further delay.” … SPORTS: O.J. SIMPSON REJECTS 5-YEAR $250,000 BUFFALO BILL OFFER— Wants $1-Million/Year or Trade–Says He’d Love to Play For Jets… (31 May) U.S. HONORS THOSE WHO DIED IN WARS–Vice President Spiro Agnew Calls On Nation To Respond To Sacrifice–Parades Mark Tributes… 70 RED PARTIES COMPLETE PLANS FOR CONFERENCE– But Fail To Reach Accord On Major Document To Be Discussed At Conference…ISRAELI MILITARY BELIEVES CALM ALONG CANAL IS ONLY TEMPORARY… SPORTS: ANDRETTI SETS MARK OF 156.8 IN TAKING INDY 500 BY 2 LAPS… (1 June) POMPIDOU KEEPS LEAD ON EVE OF FRENCH VOTING–Poher Loses Ground In Poll But A Runoff Is Expected in Race For Presidency… TOUR OF SEVEN CITIES INDICATES MOOD OF NEGRO IS UNEASY–Distrust Of Police Is Evident–New Force Of Articulate Activists Is Spurning Rights Drive… STUDENTS TO GAIN A VOICE IN U.S. EDUCATION POLICY… ROCKEFELLER CUTS HIS BOLIVIAN TOUR VISIT–Talks Are Held At Airport To Avert Violence As Students Demonstrate In Capital–Strikers In Curacao Insist Regime Quit–Two Dead In Rioting… BLACKS FORM PRO-MILITANT LEGAL UNIT… “For the last two and a half days, black lawyers, judges, law professors and law students have been talking here (Chicago) about their roles in the black revolution. The principal result of the discussion among more than 250 persons at the National Conference of Black Lawyers and Black Law Students was the formation of a new legal organization–the National Conference of Black Lawyers… the National Bar Association was not meeting the needs of black people.”… HISTORIAN SAYS NEGRO IS GAINING AS MIGRANTS FROM EUROPE DID… “… study of New York Negroes and Puerto Ricans concludes that these groups were following much the same pattern of adjustment through expansion and political action as did the early waves of European immigrants.”…
II. A… COMMANDO HUNT II… The following stats have been clipped from the PACAF SOUTHEAST ASIA AIR OPERATIONS SUMMARY for May 1969…
ATTACK SORTIES in Steel Tiger (Commando Hunt)…
USAF=5,807; NAVY=2,752; USMC=1,011 for TOTAL=9,850.
(The total for April before the turn of the monsoon was 11,157)
VEHICLES DAMAGED or DESTROYED…
USAF=1,190; USN=457; USMC=191 for TOTAL=1,838 (April=1,146)
(Truck kills improved due to performance of Gunships)
HIGHWAY (Road) CUTS…
USAF=569; USN=46; USMC=21 for TOTAL=636 (April=1,486)
(Monsoon weather closed the roads, road cuts helped)
LAOS COMBAT SORTIES (Strike and Support): 13,500; AIRCRAFT LOSSES: 5…
II. B… COMMANDO HUNT… I through VII, in brief…
The following is clipped from the Center for Naval Analyses study of August 1976 by Michael M. McCrea on fixed wing aircraft lost and damaged during the Vietnam War. The clip is from pages 2-12/13 of the study… This is an excellent sketch of the entire COMMANDO HUNT operation… I quote…
“Between 1 November 1968 and 1 September 1971, out-country air missions were almost totally into Laos…. The objective was to impede the flow of supplies through Laos, from both the north (NVN) and the south (Sihanoukville, Cambodia). As NVN grew confident that strikes in NVN had ceased permanently, it moved its AAA and SAMs further south in NVN and into Laos. Thus, the defenses in Laos became increasingly more hostile until occasional air-to-air battles between U.S. and NVN aircraft occurred over Laos. The MiG attacks were coordinated with SAM firings and often were in a ground-controlled intercept (GCI) mode.
“Because the infiltration routes in Laos in this period were almost totally unpaved, the weather significantly influenced interdiction efforts. Roads were open to traffic only during the dry season (the northern monsoon), which typically lasted from October to April. During the wet season (the southwest monsoon), the unpaved roads became deep mud, rendering vehicular passage almost impossible. Prior to the 1970 wet season, NVN used the dry season to infiltrate, and the wet season to stockpile materials in the border areas for the next dry season. Typically the AAA (primarily 37, 23, 14.7, and 12.5mm weapons) were pulled back into NVN (to guard stockpile, refit, etc.)…
“In 1968, the U.S. and its allies began the Commando Hunt campaigns which occurred every dry season until 1971-1972. (Commando Hunt I, III, V and VII were dry season ops and Commando Hunt II, IV and VI were wet season ops. There were seven Commando Hunt campaigns)…
“During the 1970 wet season, NVN road crews and the AAA defense system were not withdrawn to NVN. Rather the road crews continued to work in Laos until the cumulative effect of rain and bombing forced them to cease. This new pattern of work through the rainy season resulted, by the end of 1972, in an all-weather road system.
“From 1 November 1968 to 1 September 1971, U.S. levels of both men and aircraft decreased further. Their responsibilities were handed over to SVN under the ‘vietnamization’ program. While vietnamization of the air war was most pronounced in SVN, some also occurred in Laos. In 1970, U.S. air forces were empowered to engage in ‘protective reaction’ strikes in NVN. Thus, if the NVN fired on a reconnaissance plane, the latter’s escorts could return the fire, or a separate strike could be called in against the offensive weapon. Being illuminated by a fire control radar later sufficed to justify protective reaction strikes.
“The early protective reaction strikes were flown predominately below 20-degrees North near the NVN side of the passes leading into Laos (Ban Raving, Ban Karai, and Mugia in the south and Ken Mua and Barthlemy in the north). NVN stockpiled material near these passes, and placed SAMs near them to extend missile coverage into Laos. By late 1972, the road network in Laos and Cambodia was extensive and of high quality. In conjunction with the stockpiling of supplies (including tanks and 130mm guns) in NVN, along the infiltration routes, and in SVN, (and in Cambodia) this roadwork foretold of a major impending NVN undertaking. Also, as the 1970-to-1972 dry season began in Laos, there was a major increase in the flow of both men and material into SVN”… End quote…
HUMBLE HOST… A fair conclusion: IMHO, our interdiction campaign was a dismal failure. We were beaten by a resilient enemy with time on his side, who was allowed sanctuary and the advantages of geography and weather. Why? We were jabbing instead of pounding. We were static instead of moving forward. We dabbled at the edges instead of striking the head and heart of the enemy. We did not destroy the ability of the enemy to wage war. We did not destroy the will of the enemy to resist. Dr. Benjamin Franklin Cooling in his book CASE STUDIES IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF CLOSE AIR SUPPORT includes this in his concluding paragraphs: “The PACAF commander (Momyer) believed that any evaluation of close air support should incorporate its indirect effects as well as the actual damage inflicted… he wrote, ‘Critics often look only at the instantaneous effect and fail to recognize that the cumulative destruction of supplies and personnel has seriously limited the enemy’s capability to fulfill his objectives in Southeast Asia.’ Momyer also touched on the point when he suggested that the fundamental accomplishment of American air power was the restraint it kept on the level of enemy activity in-country. He pointed out: ‘The combination of the interdiction campaign and close air support prevented the enemy from deploying and maintaining a higher level of effort.’ Army leaders, especially those expecting tactical air resources to be as responsive as artillery, might disagree with the Air Force perspective.”…
The bottom line was that we did not prevent the enemy from achieving victory. I recall from my days in AFROTC, General Hoyt Vandenburg, the Air Force Chief of Staff, telling all: “Let us keep our eye on the goal of air power, which is to knock out the ability of the enemy to fight.”… In Vietnam, the employment of American air forces failed to get the job done. Any questions?…
III. AIRCRAFT LOSSES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA: 26 May- 1 June 1969… References include Chris Hobson’s VIETNAM AIR LOSSES and the Office of Naval Research report by Michael M. McCrea on the fixed wing aircraft losses and damage in Southeast Asia (1962-1973) of August 1976. During the week ending 1 June 1969 a total of three (3) fixed wing aircraft were lost and two (2) valiant airmen perished with their aircraft.
https://www.VietnamAirLosses.com (Links direct to search form)
(1) On 27 May a C-130A of the 21st TAS and 374th TAW out of Naha was lost on a landing at Katum. The aircraft was hit by ground fire in the approach and was streaming fuel from the starboard wing as it landed. When the props were reversed to slow the aircraft, the fuel was sucked into the engines and ignited an uncontrollable fire. The crew successfully abandoned the aircraft which was destroyed in the fire and subsequent explosion…
(2) On 29 May a Marine OV-10A of VMO-6 and MAG-39 out of Quang Tri piloted by CAPTAIN JOHN R. MORGAN, USMC, and 1LT ROBERT J. MORIARTY, USMC, was downed by AAA on a visual reconnaissance mission south of Khe Sanh along Route 9. The airmen spotted a raft on a river seven miles south of Khe Sanh and were hit in a diving attack on the target. The port engine of the Bronco caught fire and the crew ejected to be rescued after a short time on the ground in Indian country by a Marine CH-46. They would fly and fight again…
(3) On 1 June an O-2A of the 20th TASS and 504th TASG out of Danang piloted by Covey FAC CAPTAIN JACKIE L. DICKENS and co-pilot 1LT KENNARD L. SAVNOE was downed on a mission 20 miles northwest of Danang. They were controlling a strike on an enemy building and supporting troops of the 101st Airborne in OPERATION APACHE SNOW when hit by small arms fire. Neither aviator was able to escape the Skymaster before it crashed in flames killing both pilots. 1LT SAVANOE, USAFA 1967, was in his 294th day of flying in combat and due to return home to see his son for the first time. The bodies of both warriors were recovered and returned for burial at home. 1LT SAVANOE rests in peace at Greenlawn Memorial Gardens in Clyde, Ohio. CAPTAIN DICKENS rests at Memory Gardens in Madison, West Virginia…
The final Mission of CAPTAIN DICKENS and 1LT SAVANOE is featured on the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Vietnam War Commemoration weekly remembrance of the war for the week of June 6. Humble Host suggests RTR readers check out “the other weekly post” commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Vietnam war… read at…
https://www.vietnamwar50th.com/education/week_of_june_6/
IV. HUMBLE HOST END NOTE… From the Editorial Page of “The Grey Lady,” The New York Times on 28 May 1969: Another view of the choice of tactics in Vietnam…
“MAXIMUM MILITARY PRESSURE’… I quote…
“Defense Secretary Laird’s description of American military tactics in Vietnam as ‘maximum military pressure on the enemy consistent with the lowest possible casualties’ is the application of double-talk to a tragic problem. The necessity of individual battles, such as the bloody one at Apbia Mountain (Hamburger Hill), is difficult to judge from a distance. But the Johnson Administration decision last fall to step up offensive military action during the Paris peace negotiations–a directive maintained by President Nixon–has assured a high level of casualties over the past six months.
“Former Ambassador Harriman has observed that this policy has thwarted de-escalation of the war and hampered the peace negotiations–just the opposite of what is needed to achieve ‘the lowest possible casualties’ consistent with the American objective of an early settlement. Mr. Harriman says that the North Vietnamese ‘took 90 per cent of their troops out’ of the two northern provinces of South Vietnam when President Johnson halted the bombing of North Vietnam Nov. 1. Their withdrawal enabled the American commander, General Abrams, to shift the First Cavalry Division (Airmobile) from the northern province to the Saigon areas ‘and thus increase our offensive actions there.’ The enemy offensive in February of this year came in response to this American pressure, and an opportunity to scale down the war was lost.
“The degree to which American military pressure has been stepped up since November has been dramatic. The number of small unit actions initiated by the allies doubled in the first four months after the bombing halt, according to United States Army figures in Saigon. Battalion-sized operations, particularly by the South Vietnamese Army, also increased sharply, Pentagon statistics show.
“Ambassador Harriman, Senator Mansfield and others have suggested the opposite policy. They propose that the United States take the lead in stepping down offensive search-and-destroy operations. They predict, on the basis of experience with the bombing halt, that the enemy would follow suit. Recent Hanoi statements also indicate that North Vietnam might favor de-escalation of the war by example, a step that Mr. Harriman believes would speed progress in the Paris peace talks. The history of the conflict to date has certainly shown that Hanoi responds to military pressure just as the United States does–by stiffening its back.
“The irony is that the Nixon Administration continues to emphasize, as President Johnson long did, that patience by the American public is the key to a satisfactory outcome in Vietnam. In his ‘Foreign Affairs’ article published just before he took office, Mr. Nixon’s security advisor, Prof. Henry Kissinger, called for a reduction in search-and-destroy operations in unpopulated areas. Current military operations in unpopulated Ashau Valley areas are the kind Dr. Kissinger criticized. The high casualty rate they produce is the one factor most likely to erode the nation’s patience with both the military tactics and the negotiating strategy of the Nixon Administration.”...end quote…
HUMBLE HOST FINAL NOTE… The harsh criticism of President Nixon’s “maximum pressure” by the NYT and the American press rates comment… The following is clipped from Wayne Thompson’s TO HANOI AND BACK: The United States Air Force and North Vietnam 1966-1973… I quote pages 165-6…
“Except for the secret bombing of Cambodia, President Nixon had trouble finding a way to intimidate North Vietnam without arousing American critics of the war. During his first year in office, his threats remained empty, and most of his actions revealed the weakness of his position. After his initial decision not to resume the bombing of North Vietnam, Nixon’s next opportunity to display greater toughness came in April 1969 when a Navy EC-121 radio intercept plane was shot down off the coast of North Korea and all thirty-one crew members were lost. Arguing that this incident would be seen as a test of the administration’s resolve not merely in Pyongyang, but in Moscow, Beijing, and Hanoi, Kissinger supported a retaliatory strike against a North Korean airfield. Secretary of Defense Laird argued restraint and, on his own, canceled all American reconnaissance flights, not only near North Korea, but also near China, the Soviet Union, the Mediterranean, and Cuba. Although Nixon was furious with Laird, the President decided not to risk a war with North Korea. Nixon would later say that he told Kissinger: ‘They got away with it this time, but they’ll never get away with it again.’
“Knowing that withdrawal of American forces would undercut any influence he might yet have on North Vietnam, Nixon did not announce removal of the first twenty-five thousand troops until June 1969. The long-awaited beginning of Vietnamization helped to quiet protests in the United States against American search-and-destroy tactics, which had led in May to the bloody battle at Hamburger Hill. At Ap Bia near the Laotian border, the North Vietnamese had not melted away into the jungle as usual but had chosen to stand and fight. In repeated assaults on the hill more than fifty Americans were killed. After taking the hill, American troops abandoned it, for their objective there and elsewhere had not been gaining positions, but killing the enemy. Although enemy losses were thought to be much greater than American and South Vietnamese losses, American public opinion had turned against expending American lives in this way.
“Less than a month before his first troop cutback announcement, Nixon had gone on television to propose a cease-fire followed by withdrawal of most American and North Vietnamese troops. Since the United States was beginning to withdraw unilaterally, there was little incentive for North Vietnam to make such an agreement and withdraw its forces.. To give Hanoi the necessary incentive, Nixon decided in early July that he would secretly send Hanoi an ultimatum.”… End quote…
And the war goes on… for more than three more years at the bloody cost of another 23,000 warriors for the cemeteries of the United States…
Lest we forget… Bear…